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	<title>Comments on: Let Detroit Fail</title>
	<link>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336</link>
	<description>make it happen</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 07:23:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336#comment-18960</link>
		<author>Michael</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336#comment-18960</guid>
		<description>My guess is that the union contract limits the number of non-union workers Ford can hire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My guess is that the union contract limits the number of non-union workers Ford can hire.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336#comment-18935</link>
		<author>Dan</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336#comment-18935</guid>
		<description>"A majority of “foreign” cars are actually built in America by non-union workers, because labor costs in their home countries are too high due to, you guessed it, strong unions."

If that is the case, I essentially agree with you.

It also means that US jobs aren't - in the foreseeable future at least - threatened by Ford and GM being replaced by Honda and BMW, so why even worry about it, much less bail them out?

I'm still a bit skeptical of the 'blame the unions' rhetoric though.  It's not as though Ford couldn't try to hire more nonunion workers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A majority of “foreign” cars are actually built in America by non-union workers, because labor costs in their home countries are too high due to, you guessed it, strong unions.&#8221;</p>
<p>If that is the case, I essentially agree with you.</p>
<p>It also means that US jobs aren&#8217;t - in the foreseeable future at least - threatened by Ford and GM being replaced by Honda and BMW, so why even worry about it, much less bail them out?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still a bit skeptical of the &#8216;blame the unions&#8217; rhetoric though.  It&#8217;s not as though Ford couldn&#8217;t try to hire more nonunion workers.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336#comment-18932</link>
		<author>Michael</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336#comment-18932</guid>
		<description>It is an argument about the relative quality of two similarly priced products, the reason there is a difference in quality, and what to do to fix it.

The reason that, for the same price, Detroit produces a lower quality product than Toyota is that it pays higher salaries and gives more benefits to its employees. Thus, of the money you pay for that car, more goes to the worker and less goes to the car itself. These higher salaries and benefits were pushed for by unions, even though they make the Detroit auto makers less competitive. Romney is arguing that the tax payer should not be on the hook for this poor business decision.

Furthermore, you assume that BMWs, Toyotas, Nissans, etc, are built in Germany and Japan. A majority of "foreign" cars are actually built in America by non-union workers, because labor costs in their home countries are too high due to, you guessed it, strong unions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is an argument about the relative quality of two similarly priced products, the reason there is a difference in quality, and what to do to fix it.</p>
<p>The reason that, for the same price, Detroit produces a lower quality product than Toyota is that it pays higher salaries and gives more benefits to its employees. Thus, of the money you pay for that car, more goes to the worker and less goes to the car itself. These higher salaries and benefits were pushed for by unions, even though they make the Detroit auto makers less competitive. Romney is arguing that the tax payer should not be on the hook for this poor business decision.</p>
<p>Furthermore, you assume that BMWs, Toyotas, Nissans, etc, are built in Germany and Japan. A majority of &#8220;foreign&#8221; cars are actually built in America by non-union workers, because labor costs in their home countries are too high due to, you guessed it, strong unions.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336#comment-18925</link>
		<author>Dan</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336#comment-18925</guid>
		<description>Then why all the emphasis on "competitors like BMW, Honda, Nissan and Toyota" or "Taurus... compet(ing) with Toyota’s Avalon. Of course the Avalon feels like a better product" or "this disadvantage"?

It sounds to me like this is an argument specifically about the relative quality of two categories of product, followed up by blaming unions for the fact that one is lower quality.  I don't really feel like making an argument about the overall efficacy of unions, but I think in this specific instance unions are a scapegoat for a problem (the relative success of foreign cars) that cannot be explained by the presence of unions (since foreign labor is even more unionized).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then why all the emphasis on &#8220;competitors like BMW, Honda, Nissan and Toyota&#8221; or &#8220;Taurus&#8230; compet(ing) with Toyota’s Avalon. Of course the Avalon feels like a better product&#8221; or &#8220;this disadvantage&#8221;?</p>
<p>It sounds to me like this is an argument specifically about the relative quality of two categories of product, followed up by blaming unions for the fact that one is lower quality.  I don&#8217;t really feel like making an argument about the overall efficacy of unions, but I think in this specific instance unions are a scapegoat for a problem (the relative success of foreign cars) that cannot be explained by the presence of unions (since foreign labor is even more unionized).</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336#comment-18924</link>
		<author>Michael</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336#comment-18924</guid>
		<description>My argument is that the current union agreements are wholly unsustainable and that both auto executives and union leaders must be forced to renegotiate if they want to keep their jobs. The market is forcing them to do this, that is if the government will allow it by staying the hell out of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My argument is that the current union agreements are wholly unsustainable and that both auto executives and union leaders must be forced to renegotiate if they want to keep their jobs. The market is forcing them to do this, that is if the government will allow it by staying the hell out of it.</p>
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		<title>By: boose</title>
		<link>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336#comment-18916</link>
		<author>boose</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336#comment-18916</guid>
		<description>I'm pro-reduction of government interference in free trade.  That is all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pro-reduction of government interference in free trade.  That is all.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336#comment-18895</link>
		<author>Dan</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336#comment-18895</guid>
		<description>Let me see if I understand this argument correctly: the US is losing its competitive advantage to countries like Germany and Japan because US workers are so much more heavily unionized that they are too expensive to the employers.  In this particular instance the argument is being applied to the automotive industry, but no doubt the same will be said of electronics or some other industry in the near future.

If that is the argument, I'm not sure it is congruent with reality.  Japan and Germany both have more unionized workforces than the US.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me see if I understand this argument correctly: the US is losing its competitive advantage to countries like Germany and Japan because US workers are so much more heavily unionized that they are too expensive to the employers.  In this particular instance the argument is being applied to the automotive industry, but no doubt the same will be said of electronics or some other industry in the near future.</p>
<p>If that is the argument, I&#8217;m not sure it is congruent with reality.  Japan and Germany both have more unionized workforces than the US.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336#comment-18886</link>
		<author>Michael</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336#comment-18886</guid>
		<description>My name is Michael, I wrote this post, and great minds think alike. And so do we.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My name is Michael, I wrote this post, and great minds think alike. And so do we.</p>
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		<title>By: Diatribe</title>
		<link>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336#comment-18883</link>
		<author>Diatribe</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336#comment-18883</guid>
		<description>My name is Steve and I copy other FRIENDS posts!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My name is Steve and I copy other FRIENDS posts!</p>
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		<title>By: Boose</title>
		<link>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336#comment-18846</link>
		<author>Boose</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 04:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://enableate.com/michael/2008/1336#comment-18846</guid>
		<description>right on! I've heard arguments saying that the Auto workers' unions should be given less power, because they are costing US auto manufacturers a fortune.  Both solutions work better than a bailout.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>right on! I&#8217;ve heard arguments saying that the Auto workers&#8217; unions should be given less power, because they are costing US auto manufacturers a fortune.  Both solutions work better than a bailout.</p>
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