Comments on: Determining Value of Labor http://enableate.com/steve/2008/1185 make it happen Sat, 11 Feb 2012 06:42:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2 By: Michael http://enableate.com/steve/2008/1185#comment-14675 Michael Tue, 17 Jun 2008 16:25:47 +0000 http://enableate.com/steve/2008/1185#comment-14675 Darwin, you are forgetting this: Eliminating the minimum wage would have a ripple effect throughout the entire economy. As businesses like restaurants, grocery stores, Wal-marts, and other minimum wage paying employers spent less on labor, they could and would charge the customer less to remain competitive in the new market. People who could not make it on less than minimum wage in today's market would suddenly be able to afford to live on much less. Sweatshop workers in Asia are able to get by on what we would consider a pittance in part because their economies are not massively distorted by government policy. Asian countries are much more competitive in the global market; low labor costs are why they do most of the manufacturing for the world. Americans have unions and minimum wage laws to thank for the outsourcing and exportation of jobs to countries where labor is cheaper. Darwin, you are forgetting this: Eliminating the minimum wage would have a ripple effect throughout the entire economy. As businesses like restaurants, grocery stores, Wal-marts, and other minimum wage paying employers spent less on labor, they could and would charge the customer less to remain competitive in the new market. People who could not make it on less than minimum wage in today’s market would suddenly be able to afford to live on much less.

Sweatshop workers in Asia are able to get by on what we would consider a pittance in part because their economies are not massively distorted by government policy. Asian countries are much more competitive in the global market; low labor costs are why they do most of the manufacturing for the world.

Americans have unions and minimum wage laws to thank for the outsourcing and exportation of jobs to countries where labor is cheaper.

]]> By: darwin http://enableate.com/steve/2008/1185#comment-14664 darwin Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:35:44 +0000 http://enableate.com/steve/2008/1185#comment-14664 To continue with the VERY NEXT SENTENCE of my post: 'The basic problem is that, given automization and efficient corporate models, we have way way more citizens than the number of employees we actually need to keep things running. ' Of course I understand that the labor market is a market, and if left unregulated, will settle on prices following standard free-market principles. As I said, the basic problem is that we have way more labor avaialble than is actually needed- ie, the supply is higher than the demand. If I remember the first day of my economics class, I believe this means that prices will go down. Specifically, as I said, I think it means that many jobs with few qualifications will not pay enough for people in this country to live on. Certainly abolishing the minimum wage isn't going to hurt computer programmers and biotech researchers; it's not designed to help them. The minimum wage laws are specifically designed to help people in jobs where an unregulated labor market would have them making less than they need to survive. Obviously you agree with me on the facts; if you didn't think that abolishing the minimum wage would lead to lower wages, then you wouldn't be against it because it's irrelevant. Our only disagreement is on whether it's ok for US workers to be making as much money as sweatshop workers in Asia. My position is no, the government should protect our people to make sure they can afford to eat in exchange for their day of work. Your position seems to be that they should get paid what their labor is 'worth', as though the realities of a free market are actual moral imperatives rather than empirical facts that we can employ towards moral ends when appropriate. To continue with the VERY NEXT SENTENCE of my post:
‘The basic problem is that, given automization and efficient corporate models, we have way way more citizens than the number of employees we actually need to keep things running. ‘

Of course I understand that the labor market is a market, and if left unregulated, will settle on prices following standard free-market principles. As I said, the basic problem is that we have way more labor avaialble than is actually needed- ie, the supply is higher than the demand. If I remember the first day of my economics class, I believe this means that prices will go down. Specifically, as I said, I think it means that many jobs with few qualifications will not pay enough for people in this country to live on. Certainly abolishing the minimum wage isn’t going to hurt computer programmers and biotech researchers; it’s not designed to help them. The minimum wage laws are specifically designed to help people in jobs where an unregulated labor market would have them making less than they need to survive.

Obviously you agree with me on the facts; if you didn’t think that abolishing the minimum wage would lead to lower wages, then you wouldn’t be against it because it’s irrelevant. Our only disagreement is on whether it’s ok for US workers to be making as much money as sweatshop workers in Asia. My position is no, the government should protect our people to make sure they can afford to eat in exchange for their day of work. Your position seems to be that they should get paid what their labor is ‘worth’, as though the realities of a free market are actual moral imperatives rather than empirical facts that we can employ towards moral ends when appropriate.

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